desperate_gamer
25-08-2008, 17:50
Είναι σπάνιες οι φορές που καταδέχεται να μιλήσει σε κοινούς θνητούς μέσω θνητών δημοσιογράφων. Αλλά όποτε το κάνει είναι πάντα απολαυστικός.
Απολαύστε τον σε μια ενδιαφέρουσα συνέντευξη στο site Κikizo (πολύ μ' αρέσει αυτό το όνομα... :rofl:)
Hideo Kojima: The Kikizo Interview 2008
We sit down for a rare discussion with the idolised creator of the Metal Gear Solid series, to reflect on MGS4 and find out what happens next for Kojima Productions.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/hideo-kojima-interview-440.jpg
By Adam Doree (http://www.kikizo.com/staff.asp), August 24, 2008
This interview contains no MGS4 plot spoilers.
My high point of the last week was probably interviewing Hideo Kojima (http://www.kikizo.com/search/search_games.asp?qu=Hideo%20Kojima&sc=/). He's not an easy man to get an audience with these days, and his time is too precious for mere mortals like me to be wasting. So when we finally got confirmation that we would be meeting him for a half hour interview, we started preparing - and when it came down to it, asked only the burning questions we've really wanted answers to for some time.
Kojima-san, who turns 45 today, is arguably the single (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#) most talked about man in the games industry in 2008. If we look at the biggest brands in gaming right now, we find that Shigeru Miyamoto's perfect platformer for Wii is last year's news, and that the only other consistent 10-scoring game of 2008 is a title associated strongly with Rockstar North and several talented people, rather than one revered creator.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/03d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/03.jpg)
Despite the incredible commercial success of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (http://www.kikizo.com/search/search_games.asp?qu=Metal%20Gear%20Solid%204:%20Gu ns%20of%20the%20Patriots&sc=/), which has sold over four million copies, Kojima still has a vocal minority of detractors. Our aim for the interview was to explore some of the varied views that exist about his creative endeavours and try to get him talking about what happens next in the series.
Once the enjoyable interview was finished, we were very happy with the points we talked through, and contrary to gossip from some quarters, found that Mr Kojima is still every bit as humble and charming as when we last interviewed him way back in 2001. Having brushed shoulders with him at parties (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#) since then, only this week did we finally get to do a proper interview thanks to the fine folk at Konami. And here it is.
Kikizo: Mr Kojima, thank you for your time today. I'd like to start by saying, I believe it's your birthday on Sunday, so Happy Birthday for Sunday.
Kojima: [laughs] Thank you!
Kojima: 45.
Kikizo: Obviously, that's not too old. But in Metal Gear Solid 4, we see that Old Snake is now an old man. Do you relate to this older character in any way?
Kojima: Yes. Especially for Metal Gear Solid 4, it was very important. So I deliberately kind of matched myself and Old Snake. This is not just the message to the users, but also a message to the internal development (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#) staff as well; we've all been working for quite a long time, and I wanted to show that Hideo Kojima, at 45, still working in the spotlight - I wanted to show that to the staff!
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/01d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?hideo-kojima-interview/01.jpg)
I want users to play and take back some feelings from my games. Snake is, of course (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#), a hero, and it's a very, very rare that a [fictional] hero gets very old or ages - normally in games the hero doesn't age so much. However, I wanted to show that everything in the industry evolves: the games, the platforms, and even the users who used to play my games have all aged, and I wanted to express that in Old Snake. I wanted the users to almost overlap their experience - to say, "I aged, Snake aged" - I wanted to express this feeling in MGS4.
Kikizo: When you first joined Konami in the mid-80s, some of the initial designs you came up with were ignored, which must have been quite difficult. Now, many years later, you are the top designer at Konami. How did you turn things around over this long time?
Kojima: To elaborate a little bit more, I am now in a position within Konami as one of the members of the board, and it's true that I do have a responsibility, and also respect, within the company. However, when I say as a creator, "I want to create this new game (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#)", it's still the same as twenty years ago! People still ask, "will that sell, will that be good?" Nobody really understands whether it would be an instant hit or whatever - I'm not just talking about the top executives, but even the development staff! But that is my challenge, actually. That's what's interesting. They do not understand what they cannot see instantly, so they can't say "that's a great idea" straight away. That's my challenge, and my satisfaction when I present to them, saying I want to create this new thing. And if I get more 'boos' about it - if they say, "no - we don't know what you're talking about!" then this is actually the fun part.
Kikizo: With the greatest respect, you told us in 2001 that Metal Gear 2 would be the last MGS title you would work on yourself. You said the same about MGS3, and you are now saying the same about MGS4. Obviously, this is a series that you love and are extremely close to - can you really see yourself - say after another ten years - not having directed a fifth game with a new story angle?
Kojima: [Laughs and nods, as if to acknowledge our point]. Well, that's a difficult question to answer! I say frankly, on a private level, that I always intend to stay true to these statements; I do always say what I actually feel at that time, after each Metal Gear, when I say I am going to move on to the next project. But it's like when Hayao Miyazaki says he is not going to do more, and then always ends up doing it. I think I am kind of in a similar situation; I have ideas other than Metal Gear, and I want to go on to make other new games (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp#), but for political, business (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp#) or technology reasons, there is always a time when I have to return. But I have to say, my feeling hasn't changed; I would like to pass on the Metal Gear series to younger staff members, and then go on to produce the title, and not be so attached to it.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/06d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/06.jpg)
I always want to be in a creative position, where I can concentrate and grow as a creator. I feel if I don't do that, I might as well not be in the industry. But on the other hand, I am looking after and responsible for the business side of Konami as a whole, as well as for Kojima Productions, and it would be ridiculous for me on the business side to say I will just bring out a game every four years. Therefore, I would like to keep doing what I do, but at the same time, pass my own ideas to the staff who can take over and produce. That's what I have been doing, and I would like to keep doing it this way. And in my spare time I want to establish a new game, which I have been wanting to do for a long time. I do have strong urges to create a new title other than the Metal Gear series. As a businessperson, I might worry whether it will sell more than the Metal Gear series, but that's another issue!
But when I said it's a difficult question to answer, I mean that when we look ten years into the future, maybe yes, I may well end up spending more time on the Metal Gear series!
Kikizo: Here's one interesting conflict when you mention design versus business. In the 2001 interview you did with us, you described a concept for a what you called a 'raw game': you buy the game, you play it, and if you lose it's over, and you have to buy it again! I wonder if this is something you still think of, seven years later? Is this the game you refer to when you mention the new titles in your mind?
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/03d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?hideo-kojima-interview/03.jpg)
Kojima: [Laughs] Well that 'raw game' concept is basically just one of the ideas I had back then, meaning combinations could always apply when creating video games; I could take that idea and other ideas that I've had, and make it into one game. But the thing that I am trying to work out right now is an idea that I had ten years ago, which I am still worried on the technical side whether it's possible or not even today.
Kikizo: What do you think of the trend towards simplified control led by the Wii (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp#)?
Kojima: Well I don't have any concerns actually, because the bottom line is, when you design a game, you have to target who you want to target. And you design knowing which target to approach, and that's the key. Even when people say that they may change the interface to a very simplified version, I agree and disagree at the same time; look at games that are more difficult because of that new interface, like a racing game for example: it was right or left in the past, but now you have to manoeuvre using the motion controller - this is actually more difficult than in past racing games! In traditional games you practise a lot, and you kind of 'upgrade yourself', and then you clear the game. So I think there are pros and cons.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/05d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/05.jpg)
For some players, motion control will come naturally straight away, but for others it might feel difficult, so the game designer is really now responsible to think about which direction he or she should take. I played Killzone 2 this morning, actually, and it was funny because the FPS control was traditional FPS, but when you come to a door and have to kind of open the latch, you all of a sudden have to use the Sixaxis, and nobody was succeeding. So maybe they were kind of rushing to implement the technical design, which might not be the correct way to do it in that title.
Kikizo: [Scans remaining discussion points, as time is running out]... well I know you won't give an answer to the Xbox 360 question... [everyone laughs]... so, let's talk about the themes of MGS4 - terrorism, conspiracy theories, government corruption - do you hope that these themes will open up some players' eyes to certain things in the real world which they may otherwise be oblivious to? Or, do you exaggerate these themes for storytelling purposes?
Kojima: Well, since it's a game, the first priority was to provide fun to the users, but I also wanted to comment on the current world situation and for users to maybe realise more about it through the game. But I only wanted to make MGS4 a window to this; the next step - where you open the window and look at the real world - that's up to the users! I didn't want to exaggerate just to make my story glitter or get coverage on the news (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#), that was not my intention.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/02d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?hideo-kojima-interview/02.jpg)
Kikizo: Metal Gear Solid is famed for its cinematic qualities, though cut scenes that progress the story are rarely in an interactive form. Is this intentional, or is it perhaps an area for further developemnt (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#)?
Kojima: Gameplay is always fundamental. Halo, BioShock - I see their approach and I think they are brilliant in some ways, but I still feel they still lack a kind of a deeper storyline or the expression of the feelings of the characters. I do have plans of how I should approach this and get around it. In MGS4, yes, I put everything in the cut sequences, which I kind of regret to some extent, because maybe there is a new approach which I should think about. I'm always thinking about it - making it interactive but at the same time telling the story part and the drama even more emotionally. I would like to take that approach, which I am still working on.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/01d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/01.jpg)
Kikizo: And do you think you will only be able to achieve this fusion (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#) of cinematic and interactive gameplay with future, more powerful hardware?
Kojima: Well, yes. The hardware plays an important factor, but I think the way of thinking is more important, from a creative point of view. Storytelling is very difficult. But adding the flavour helps to relay the storytelling, meaning in a cut scene, with a set camera and effects, you can make the users feel sorrow, or make them happy or laugh - this is an easy approach, which we have been doing. That is one point, the second point is that if I make multiple storylines and allow the users to select which story, this might really sacrifice the deep emotion the user might feel; when there's a concrete storyline, and you kind of go along that rail, you feel the destiny of the story, which at the end, makes you feel more moved. But when you make it interactive - if you want multiple stories where you go one way or another - will that make the player more moved when he or she finishes the game? These two points are really the key which I am thinking about, and if this works, I think I could probably introduce a more interactive storytelling method.
Kikizo: Thank you very much for your time.
As a foot note, we wish we had interviewed Mr Kojima after we had seen a stunning behind closed doors presentation of Heavy Rain, a first party PS3 title by French developer, Quantic Dream (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#). We think it has the clear potential to achieve exactly the sort of fusion of cinematic storytelling and interactivity that we discussed with Mr Kojima. Interestingly, we later saw Kojima attending a presentation of Mirror's Edge, a game he said he was interested to check out. Who knows what ideas Mirror's Edge and Heavy Rain might give him?
http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp
Περιμένω σχόλια! :tiphat:
Απολαύστε τον σε μια ενδιαφέρουσα συνέντευξη στο site Κikizo (πολύ μ' αρέσει αυτό το όνομα... :rofl:)
Hideo Kojima: The Kikizo Interview 2008
We sit down for a rare discussion with the idolised creator of the Metal Gear Solid series, to reflect on MGS4 and find out what happens next for Kojima Productions.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/hideo-kojima-interview-440.jpg
By Adam Doree (http://www.kikizo.com/staff.asp), August 24, 2008
This interview contains no MGS4 plot spoilers.
My high point of the last week was probably interviewing Hideo Kojima (http://www.kikizo.com/search/search_games.asp?qu=Hideo%20Kojima&sc=/). He's not an easy man to get an audience with these days, and his time is too precious for mere mortals like me to be wasting. So when we finally got confirmation that we would be meeting him for a half hour interview, we started preparing - and when it came down to it, asked only the burning questions we've really wanted answers to for some time.
Kojima-san, who turns 45 today, is arguably the single (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#) most talked about man in the games industry in 2008. If we look at the biggest brands in gaming right now, we find that Shigeru Miyamoto's perfect platformer for Wii is last year's news, and that the only other consistent 10-scoring game of 2008 is a title associated strongly with Rockstar North and several talented people, rather than one revered creator.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/03d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/03.jpg)
Despite the incredible commercial success of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (http://www.kikizo.com/search/search_games.asp?qu=Metal%20Gear%20Solid%204:%20Gu ns%20of%20the%20Patriots&sc=/), which has sold over four million copies, Kojima still has a vocal minority of detractors. Our aim for the interview was to explore some of the varied views that exist about his creative endeavours and try to get him talking about what happens next in the series.
Once the enjoyable interview was finished, we were very happy with the points we talked through, and contrary to gossip from some quarters, found that Mr Kojima is still every bit as humble and charming as when we last interviewed him way back in 2001. Having brushed shoulders with him at parties (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#) since then, only this week did we finally get to do a proper interview thanks to the fine folk at Konami. And here it is.
Kikizo: Mr Kojima, thank you for your time today. I'd like to start by saying, I believe it's your birthday on Sunday, so Happy Birthday for Sunday.
Kojima: [laughs] Thank you!
Kojima: 45.
Kikizo: Obviously, that's not too old. But in Metal Gear Solid 4, we see that Old Snake is now an old man. Do you relate to this older character in any way?
Kojima: Yes. Especially for Metal Gear Solid 4, it was very important. So I deliberately kind of matched myself and Old Snake. This is not just the message to the users, but also a message to the internal development (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#) staff as well; we've all been working for quite a long time, and I wanted to show that Hideo Kojima, at 45, still working in the spotlight - I wanted to show that to the staff!
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/01d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?hideo-kojima-interview/01.jpg)
I want users to play and take back some feelings from my games. Snake is, of course (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#), a hero, and it's a very, very rare that a [fictional] hero gets very old or ages - normally in games the hero doesn't age so much. However, I wanted to show that everything in the industry evolves: the games, the platforms, and even the users who used to play my games have all aged, and I wanted to express that in Old Snake. I wanted the users to almost overlap their experience - to say, "I aged, Snake aged" - I wanted to express this feeling in MGS4.
Kikizo: When you first joined Konami in the mid-80s, some of the initial designs you came up with were ignored, which must have been quite difficult. Now, many years later, you are the top designer at Konami. How did you turn things around over this long time?
Kojima: To elaborate a little bit more, I am now in a position within Konami as one of the members of the board, and it's true that I do have a responsibility, and also respect, within the company. However, when I say as a creator, "I want to create this new game (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp#)", it's still the same as twenty years ago! People still ask, "will that sell, will that be good?" Nobody really understands whether it would be an instant hit or whatever - I'm not just talking about the top executives, but even the development staff! But that is my challenge, actually. That's what's interesting. They do not understand what they cannot see instantly, so they can't say "that's a great idea" straight away. That's my challenge, and my satisfaction when I present to them, saying I want to create this new thing. And if I get more 'boos' about it - if they say, "no - we don't know what you're talking about!" then this is actually the fun part.
Kikizo: With the greatest respect, you told us in 2001 that Metal Gear 2 would be the last MGS title you would work on yourself. You said the same about MGS3, and you are now saying the same about MGS4. Obviously, this is a series that you love and are extremely close to - can you really see yourself - say after another ten years - not having directed a fifth game with a new story angle?
Kojima: [Laughs and nods, as if to acknowledge our point]. Well, that's a difficult question to answer! I say frankly, on a private level, that I always intend to stay true to these statements; I do always say what I actually feel at that time, after each Metal Gear, when I say I am going to move on to the next project. But it's like when Hayao Miyazaki says he is not going to do more, and then always ends up doing it. I think I am kind of in a similar situation; I have ideas other than Metal Gear, and I want to go on to make other new games (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp#), but for political, business (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp#) or technology reasons, there is always a time when I have to return. But I have to say, my feeling hasn't changed; I would like to pass on the Metal Gear series to younger staff members, and then go on to produce the title, and not be so attached to it.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/06d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/06.jpg)
I always want to be in a creative position, where I can concentrate and grow as a creator. I feel if I don't do that, I might as well not be in the industry. But on the other hand, I am looking after and responsible for the business side of Konami as a whole, as well as for Kojima Productions, and it would be ridiculous for me on the business side to say I will just bring out a game every four years. Therefore, I would like to keep doing what I do, but at the same time, pass my own ideas to the staff who can take over and produce. That's what I have been doing, and I would like to keep doing it this way. And in my spare time I want to establish a new game, which I have been wanting to do for a long time. I do have strong urges to create a new title other than the Metal Gear series. As a businessperson, I might worry whether it will sell more than the Metal Gear series, but that's another issue!
But when I said it's a difficult question to answer, I mean that when we look ten years into the future, maybe yes, I may well end up spending more time on the Metal Gear series!
Kikizo: Here's one interesting conflict when you mention design versus business. In the 2001 interview you did with us, you described a concept for a what you called a 'raw game': you buy the game, you play it, and if you lose it's over, and you have to buy it again! I wonder if this is something you still think of, seven years later? Is this the game you refer to when you mention the new titles in your mind?
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/03d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?hideo-kojima-interview/03.jpg)
Kojima: [Laughs] Well that 'raw game' concept is basically just one of the ideas I had back then, meaning combinations could always apply when creating video games; I could take that idea and other ideas that I've had, and make it into one game. But the thing that I am trying to work out right now is an idea that I had ten years ago, which I am still worried on the technical side whether it's possible or not even today.
Kikizo: What do you think of the trend towards simplified control led by the Wii (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p2.asp#)?
Kojima: Well I don't have any concerns actually, because the bottom line is, when you design a game, you have to target who you want to target. And you design knowing which target to approach, and that's the key. Even when people say that they may change the interface to a very simplified version, I agree and disagree at the same time; look at games that are more difficult because of that new interface, like a racing game for example: it was right or left in the past, but now you have to manoeuvre using the motion controller - this is actually more difficult than in past racing games! In traditional games you practise a lot, and you kind of 'upgrade yourself', and then you clear the game. So I think there are pros and cons.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/05d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/05.jpg)
For some players, motion control will come naturally straight away, but for others it might feel difficult, so the game designer is really now responsible to think about which direction he or she should take. I played Killzone 2 this morning, actually, and it was funny because the FPS control was traditional FPS, but when you come to a door and have to kind of open the latch, you all of a sudden have to use the Sixaxis, and nobody was succeeding. So maybe they were kind of rushing to implement the technical design, which might not be the correct way to do it in that title.
Kikizo: [Scans remaining discussion points, as time is running out]... well I know you won't give an answer to the Xbox 360 question... [everyone laughs]... so, let's talk about the themes of MGS4 - terrorism, conspiracy theories, government corruption - do you hope that these themes will open up some players' eyes to certain things in the real world which they may otherwise be oblivious to? Or, do you exaggerate these themes for storytelling purposes?
Kojima: Well, since it's a game, the first priority was to provide fun to the users, but I also wanted to comment on the current world situation and for users to maybe realise more about it through the game. But I only wanted to make MGS4 a window to this; the next step - where you open the window and look at the real world - that's up to the users! I didn't want to exaggerate just to make my story glitter or get coverage on the news (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#), that was not my intention.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/hideo-kojima-interview/02d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?hideo-kojima-interview/02.jpg)
Kikizo: Metal Gear Solid is famed for its cinematic qualities, though cut scenes that progress the story are rarely in an interactive form. Is this intentional, or is it perhaps an area for further developemnt (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#)?
Kojima: Gameplay is always fundamental. Halo, BioShock - I see their approach and I think they are brilliant in some ways, but I still feel they still lack a kind of a deeper storyline or the expression of the feelings of the characters. I do have plans of how I should approach this and get around it. In MGS4, yes, I put everything in the cut sequences, which I kind of regret to some extent, because maybe there is a new approach which I should think about. I'm always thinking about it - making it interactive but at the same time telling the story part and the drama even more emotionally. I would like to take that approach, which I am still working on.
http://games.kikizo.com/media2008/mgs4_rev/01d.jpg (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview.asp?mgs4_rev/01.jpg)
Kikizo: And do you think you will only be able to achieve this fusion (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#) of cinematic and interactive gameplay with future, more powerful hardware?
Kojima: Well, yes. The hardware plays an important factor, but I think the way of thinking is more important, from a creative point of view. Storytelling is very difficult. But adding the flavour helps to relay the storytelling, meaning in a cut scene, with a set camera and effects, you can make the users feel sorrow, or make them happy or laugh - this is an easy approach, which we have been doing. That is one point, the second point is that if I make multiple storylines and allow the users to select which story, this might really sacrifice the deep emotion the user might feel; when there's a concrete storyline, and you kind of go along that rail, you feel the destiny of the story, which at the end, makes you feel more moved. But when you make it interactive - if you want multiple stories where you go one way or another - will that make the player more moved when he or she finishes the game? These two points are really the key which I am thinking about, and if this works, I think I could probably introduce a more interactive storytelling method.
Kikizo: Thank you very much for your time.
As a foot note, we wish we had interviewed Mr Kojima after we had seen a stunning behind closed doors presentation of Heavy Rain, a first party PS3 title by French developer, Quantic Dream (http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p3.asp#). We think it has the clear potential to achieve exactly the sort of fusion of cinematic storytelling and interactivity that we discussed with Mr Kojima. Interestingly, we later saw Kojima attending a presentation of Mirror's Edge, a game he said he was interested to check out. Who knows what ideas Mirror's Edge and Heavy Rain might give him?
http://games.kikizo.com/features/hideo-kojima-interview-2008-p1.asp
Περιμένω σχόλια! :tiphat: